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Tom Green

Great post.

Brought to mind the Philip Larkin poem, "Talking in Bed".

Talking in bed ought to be easiest,
Lying together there goes back so far,
An emblem of two people being honest.

(Needless to say, this being Larkin, the next three verses are about the difficulty of talking in bed)

btw...what happened on the next date with the tired sake woman?!

Ann Wesley Hardin

Yeah, we wanna know if you got some morning action, Billy!

*pumping fist* Woooo-Wooooo!

All I could think about as I read this was that my face would look like a blowfish in the morning after a boatload of Sake and, presumably, sodium-soaked sushi. No way would you catch me spending the night under those circumstances anymore. It's my menopausal lot in life right now, I guess.

Anyway, it's too early for me to recall the interesting pillow-talk in my life. I'll think on it and come back later.

E.C. Henry

Billy, sorry nothing to report from the personal archives. Though I must admit, I do agree with you wholeheatedly that the bedroom is a key place for gaining insight into the characters in any given rom/com couple. AND I do appreciate your own openess in siting one of your personal experiences.

NOW I see why you like that movie, "When Harry Meet Sally," so much. The peices are all starting to come together...

- E.C. Henry from Bonney Lake, WA

Ann Wesley Hardin

We don't have to stick to personal experience? Phew. That's a load off.

Okay, here's where I can actually add something informative and relatively intelligent to the blogersation.

I write erotic romcom! Being in bed with/having sex with (whatever *gg*) is definitely one of the most potentially explosive moments in not only a new relationship with someone else, but that old one with yourself, too.

Here's a snippet from an old blog post about why I chose this genre:

"To close the door and assume the reader knows what's going on in your character's heads at such a crucial moment is, in my opinion, a cop out. The reader will only know what they personally would've felt, not what your characters felt. And the raw language of erotic romance is a metaphor for the raw emotions being experienced.

We all know that what we do with our bodies affects our souls and our emotions. So, if people ask how can I write that stuff, I say, how can I not?"

And the potential comedy in these scenes--for misunderstandings, misread cues, insecurities and vulnerabilities etc.--is a delightful feast for anyone who loves writing funny.

One of my favorite arenas to explore in comedy is "what's said vs what's heard". People hear through a filter of doubts, fears and mild psychosis. Now put them naked in bed together and all those things are magnified ten-thousand times over.

It's an absolute riot. Great topic, Billy. I'll probably be pondering this all day!

binnie

Ahem. Perhaps I should recuse myself from these proceedings, but yes, Billy, you're right, the real part of any relationship is what happens before, and especially after, sex. That is where real intimacy lies (pardon the pun) and how a lasting relationship forms. I'm just a little concerned that your online musings about your dates (or non-dates, i.e. "Cynthia" from a few posts back) can appear a bit...ungallant, if you will. How do these women feel about your posting your experiences?

Betsy

Oh, this made me laugh so hard that if the rom-com comes out half as funny it's a guaranteed winner.
We spend so much time in our bed I'm going to have to think about that one! It's one of our favorite places.

MaryAn

Why, exactly, should you recuse yourself, Binnie?

HuckleCat

I've gotten complaints from guys that I fall asleep when they're telling me something intimate and difficult-to-share. Oops.

christina

I have a really nice king-size bed that some rich relatives gave to me when they moved from their 2nd home, a home they only occupied a few weeks. The bed probably cost $2000. I would never have bought it for myself. Covered in $500 sheets (found on sale for $200), it's a bed fit for a king.

I've been single and sleeping alone since January. I dated a musician for a few weeks in June. When I brought him home the first time, he was awake and practically threw me on my bed. Then he got in my bed. Within minutes, he passed out. I was like, "Huh?" He slept 10 hours, snoring. I spent the night in the living room, reading. Confused. The next week, he came over again and we tried it one more time. He got into my bed, and bam, was out like a light. Snoring. For 9 hours. I spent another night reading in the living room.

He told me it was the first real sleep he had had in months, since he broke up with his last girlfriend and she kicked him out. (He'd been sleeping on a futon.) After those two nights in my bed, he stopped dating me and spent $1500 on a new bed instead.

I have not dated since.

Re: When Harry Met Sally. I like the scene when they're in their own beds and on the phone with each other late at night. They're already pillow talking and they haven't acknowledged that they're in love.

Susan

I have a really weird but 100% true bed story. Not really about intimacy, but definately about bed sleep styles....I have always slept on my right side, I can't sleep on on my left side - 10 minutes and I wake up. I have a twin sister and when we were in the womb together she sat on my head. So when I was a newborn the doctor recommended that I sleep in an outfit with a hood with my head pinned down (so the other side of my head would develop - so both sides would be even). It did work - I don't have a lopsided face. But I realized the reason that I sleep on my right side is that I was literally "pinned down" to the mattress on my right side for a few months as a newborn - I had a few nightmares about it but it didn't require major therapy. (I realized this was the reason when I saw a picture of myself as a baby with safety pins attached to a sleep bonnet) Weird but true.

mernitman

Tom: Thanks for this. Ah, the delightful Mr. Larkin -- who, I'm thinking, wasn't exactly a barrel of laughs in the sack. And re: my sake-ed date... Surely as an Englishman you'll understand: a gentleman never tells! ;-)

Which is why Ann, though I appreciate the enthusiasm, I'm drawing the line (or the blinds) right here. Meanwhile, I'm stealing your "blowfish" metaphor for my next fictional morning-after description...

EC: and when all the pieces come together, let me know -- no, on second thought, don't -- I don't think I could stand the insight...

Ann: "what's said v. what's heard" -- that's just great. And BTW, as someone who used to write Harlequins, I'm totally with you on filling in the bedroom blanks (in fiction).

Binnie: Un-gallant? I don't think so. Un-gallant would be naming names and going much further into specifics (and if you troll a number of other blogs you may be shocked at how tell-all personal bloggers can be).

I always think seriously about how much I may be betraying confidences in posts like this -- the one time in my blog life that I did use someone's actual (first) name I got my figurative head handed to me, even though the other specifics I'd cited about said person had been altered (not enough, according to her near-pyschotic reaction).

I think that as long as you're not really causing harm and casting aspersions on the other person and are reasonably discreet, personal experience like this is fair blogging game. You'll note that in the "Cynthia" post I practically bent over backwards explaining and justifying her behavior, and that in both that post and this one, the person being made fun of is me.

("Cynthia," BTW, was fine about my post, and when she did have her two cents to put in, she commented, and got responded to accordingly.)

Actually, if you knew how many experiences I HAVEN'T blogged about, re: real-life rom-com, you'd think me the acme of gallantosity.

Betsy and Ben: insert envious *sigh...*

Hucklecat, that's hilarious, and thanks for puncturing the myth that it's the MEN who always (inappropriately) fall asleep.

Oh Christina! Bless your maligned heart; do we chortle with you or sniffle? The beauty part of being a writer is that you can (and must) translate this stuff into film/fiction.

Actually, it sounds to me like a great set-up for a Marquez-ian or Murakami-like short story: In San Francisco once, there lived a woman whose bed was so comfortable that any time... Etc.

Re: the musician in question,
1) A musician; need we say more?
2) You are so, so better off.

Wow, Susan, that's amazing, and... speaking of Murakami -- also GREAT characterization material...

Ann Wesley Hardin

These last couple of comments have illustrated how a writer can use the bedroom not just to reveal character, but to show it. We're always warned to show, not tell, right? Weeeell look no further than the bedroom for GREAT showing potential.

How a character behaves to get sex, how he/she behaves during and after, how they lie on it (side/fetal, back, face-smashed-into-pillow), what sort of pillow they like, what sort of sheets, naked or jammies, eating, TV watching, restless sleeping, dead-to-the-world, and so on.

These are wonderful, subtle showing tools where the writer won't have to resort to any exposition at all.

Then later on in the book you can show your restless hero sleeping calmly when the heroine is beside him.

Now I'm all excited to get some of this into my WIP.

Ann Wesley Hardin

Billy, did you get anything published with Harlequin? I tried for years to squeeze my big voice into their mold until the effort killed my will to live *gg*.

I cut my teeth on reading them, and their online website taught me how to write. I've also made alot of enduring friendships with Harlequin authors. But in the end, EC was my home. They let me do anything, in almost any word count. The freedom there is unbelievable. I could go on and on.

Anyway, go ahead. Take my blowfish! See if I care. Plenty more where that came from *sniffle*

j/k

Susan

Another thing that's sort of weird about me (I'm not sure if its linked to the "bed pinning" experience) but I have a "Romantic" Side and a "Non-Romantic" Side.

When guys are seated to my Right - that's my "Romantic Side" and I feel more "romantic" feelings toward them.

When guys are seated on my Left side that's my "Non-Romantic" more platonic side.

Kinda weird. Just thought I'd share....

Writergurl

Oh yeah, intimacy isn't always about S.E.X! I first discovered that my ex loved me when I was in the twilight zone between fully awake and fully asleep. I was over at her house one night and we had been snuggling (fully clothed... get your mind outta that gutter) on her bed watching Saturday Night Live when I began to get drowsy and then eventually drifted off towards sleep tangled in her arms. Just as I was beginning to fall fast asleep, I felt her untangle herself, and it woke me a bit. She didn't get off the bed so I figured she was just getting more comfortable.

As I drifted back towards sleep... I felt the bed move again, a more sublte shifting now, but it still stopped my slide into a deep sleep. As I swam my way towards conciousness, I felt the slightest feather light touch as she traced my features. First, my brow, then the curve of my cheek and then down my nose before she traced my lower lip. I just lay there and let her think that I was still asleep as she showed me her heart.

Trish

Getting in bed naked with a sexy guy and telling him you're sleepy is not fair play. Be sleepy. Stay dressed. Be naked. Have fun. It's an either or in my opinion.

Trish

What I meant to say was that if you're sleepy, and you don't want to sleep with the guy, have the courtesy to not jump in bed naked with him.

binnie

Nooooooooooo, MaryAn, cannot go there. Not on this blog, at any rate!
:)

binnie

P.S. I agree with Trish.

mernitman

Ann: Amen to your thoughts on character. I published some 8 or 9 Harlequins, back in the '80s, and a bunch of "Second Chance at Love"s under the names Lee Williams and Leigh Anne Williams; for the whole sordid story, read:
http://livingromcom.typepad.com/my_weblog/2005/12/my_life_as_a_wo.html and http://livingromcom.typepad.com/my_weblog/2005/12/my_life_as_a_wo_1.html

Susan: Curiouser and curiouser...

Writergurl, that is so freakin' SWEET...

Trish: Actually, I quite agree.

Binnie, Soul of Discretion. ;-)

Ann Wesley Hardin

Whoa, a fascinating, cautionary tale. Man. I always knew this biz was small but that really underlines it.

Back then I was starting career and family, so I'd stopped reading romances and forgotten that all my life I wanted to write them. So, sorry to say, I missed out on some wonderful love scenes ;)

You can bet tomorrow I'll be taking my lil a$$ off to a UBS, though!

Writergurl

Yea, well, she did have SOME good points. I wouldn't have been that crazy aout her otherwise.

cyynthia

Alert and erect? Good thing that girl's not a tell-all memoirist or anything! You never KNOW what could (not) come up!

mernitman

Ann, I have a feeling you've written all the scenes you missed...

Writergurl: It feels like one of those (as Woody Allen said) "we need the eggs" situations...

Cyynthia, somehow I feel like someone's trying to hit me below the belt...

Ann Wesley Hardin

I'm sure I did, back in the day when I was His Manhood's court jester. The ancient language was so ingrained in me I used to cringe at the keyboard when exploring the juicy, naughty words. But like anything, dirtiness evolves, or devolves-- depending on perspective. Right now I really enjoy it. I might get tired of the words someday, but I'll never get tired of the freedom to use them.

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