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E.C. Henry

Does plot matter? I say it depends on the genre you're talking about, Mr. Mernit.

For a rom-com; it's all about the ride. Can you give the audience something to savor. The only exception that comes to mind of a rom-com where I was genuinely intreaged by the plot was "Definately, Maybe." In that one Ryan Reyolds had his choice of three hotties -- we should all be so lucky.

"The ride" can be memorible set-pieces, great dialog bantered by the leads, the humor factor, a great supporting cast that steals the show ("My Big, Fat Greek Wedding"), or a unique emotional hook that the viewer can see played on the screen which in someway ressonates to them personally.

Plot is VERY IMPORTANT in thrillers which set up in the audiences mind from the get-go a mental puzzle to solve.

Plot matters very little in the horror genre where it's all about using plot to set up tense showdowns between monsters and heroines. Case and point, "Halloween" (1978). The magic point of that moive is the cinematic brillance of putting Jamie Lee Curtis in foreground, unaware that the monster, Michael Myers, is lunking in the background. Then Michael Myers slips off camera and the audience's pulse quickens. Why? Because the heroine their invested in is at risk again.

Anyway, great thought-provoking post as always, Billy.

- E.C. Henry from Bonney Lake, WA

Bailish

Interesting concept.

When I watch a comedy, I expect a happy ending, but I watch it for the humor and lightness. My measure of how good it is is how much I laugh, or how much I care about the characters.

A thriller I think would be ruined by a revealed ending. Imagine watching the Bourne Identity when you know he was part of a top secret government organization and trained as an assassin. Most of the story is ruined because we know the resolution.

On the other hand, an action story like the Matrix would not have been spoiled much. The entertainment for action movies is more frequently from special effects, but the character dynamics is important, too. Who can forget Spiderman's first kiss with the girl next door?

jamy

I find that I can often remember all the key plot elements of a movie-but not the ending (maybe this is my age showing?). So, I would say that, no, I don't care about spoilers. It's not the ending that matters, but the journey that takes you there. We all know what was going to happen at the end of Titanic--yet, for some reason, it was an incredibly popular movie (I wasn't a huge fan, but I like the FX).

I found the "Sixth Sense" kind of annoying because I realized I'd been paying attention to the wrong things the whole time. But I didn't like the movie well enough to see it a second time.

Laura

To put it simply:

Since I have had the enjoyment of a mystery or thriller (book as well as film) ruined by having had the story spoiled - I know that plot matters. At least some of the time.

Scott M

I also think it's counterproductive to announce in the advertising of a thriller that it is going to have a surprise twist - because if the viewer is trying to puzzle that out before it comes, it's not likely to be helping the story any.

I can also say that in my imaginary "male cut" of Sleepless in Seattle - which is 34 minutes long, and in which Rosie O'Donnell does not appear - Meg Ryan leaps off the top of the Empire State Building at the end, and somehow this still works well.

mernitman

E.C. - I think you're spot-on in pointing out the necessity of good plotting in certain genres more than others; again, this is something that the researchers discussed above didn't seem to take into account.

Bailish: Mulling over your comment and others, I'm starting to think that in the thriller and action genres, specifically, it is in fact character-driven twists and surprises that provide the necessary extra tension (e.g. that now-iconic Spidey kiss scene) - given that the basic central core story moves are formulaic and predictable.

Jamy: Wait, wait, did something bad happen at the end of TITANIC? Seriously, though, the "journey is the thing" notion seems to be what's developing as this post's meme. But I'm still on the fence about how much that journey can be compromised by TMI. Following your logic, not so much; to support that, witness the repeated-viewing phenom that accompanied TITANIC's massive success: apparently knowing that Leo went under didn't stop fans from coming back for more, more, more.

Laura: Agreed. And when I get done building my Degree of Spoiler Disappointment According to Genre calculator, I'll provide the actual specific percentages to replace "some of the time."

Scott: The problem with all such marketing is that it's aimed at one specific goal: the strongest possible opening weekend, which (in 2011) is just about all the studios care about. Meanwhile, re: your SLEEPLESS, I'm sure you've enjoyed the one-minute horror movie version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frUPnZMxr08

DannyM

When someone tries to tell you spoilers don't matter, I recommend telling them the punchline of three jokes in a row, and then insisting on their full attention while you tell the actual jokes slowly and with much extraneous detail. But that's just me.

(And many thanks for this excellent resource/entertainment.)

Judith Duncan

Hey Billy,
I started writing an action comedy in one of the extension classes and realised how important plot was.Though I have fun characters,and interesting story and people have enjoyed some funny set pieces,I've really stubbed my toe on the plot and have to spend some time getting it right,as it's very specific for this genre.
I liked what DannyM said about the punchline of jokes.I didn't know the ending of 'The Sixth Sense',and loved that wonderful moment when the penny dropped or ' Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind' which had an amazing story,plot and writing.
Though I can now see it was a romantic comedy and basically boy gets girl, boy loses girl,boy gets girl again,if I had been conscious of that at the beginning I would have missed that incredible elusive journey, which reminded me of my childhood on the beach tracking sea snails. Going round in circles and loving it,trusting I'd find something wonderful at the end. Or 'The Boy in the Stripped Pyjamas',I hadn't read the book and had a physical reaction as I was watching the film as it started to dawn on me where I was being led to. That feeling of,no...no...that's not going to happen...it's not,no.I don't want that to happen....it happened. I don't want that emotional investment taken away from me.

mernitman

Danny: I hope to try your technique (maybe while wearing chain mail).

Judith: Emotional Investment - They Can't Take That Away From Us!

Scott

Like life, it's about the journey.

Joanna Farnsworth

Plot DOES matter.

There's no story action without plot. In a movie, characters have to have a DO story.

But HOW they do it matters more. And what they have to BE to do it matters most.

Once we've seen the DO story, we know it. It can be repeated, but not re-experienced.

It's the BE story we can re-experience again and again, differently each time we see it.

Why is it we can watch some movies over and over, despite knowing plots and visual effects, and still enjoy every moment as if it were a first viewing?

Why is it we can re-watch "Back To The Future", and still experience the suspense of whether Doc will get those plugs together.

Because - it's not ABOUT plot. It's about the personality story of the characters.

That's why I watch Sleepless over and over. To re-experience that particular way of BEING romantic.

So I say, the plot story matters, but it's the BE story we're lifelong friends with.

mernitman

Scott: I'll drink to that.

Joanna: I like this division into the DO and BE stories. Great food for thought, though I can't avoid positing a structure that checkerboards "Do" and "Be" beats as an inevitable Sinatra joke (i.e. Do-be-do-be-do...).

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  • : CHERISHED: 21 Writers on Animals They Have Loved and Lost

    CHERISHED: 21 Writers on Animals They Have Loved and Lost
    Judith Lewis Mernit and I both contributed essays to this book, along with Jane Smiley, Thomas McGuane, Anne Lamott and a bunch of other famous and non-famous writers. Edited by Barbara Abercrombie, it's available on Amazon for a mere 10 bucks and change, and all proceeds go to an animal rescue charity.

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